and once again 

as i said , NOT ANY1 of my friends download games , we only play online and we always buy the games cause we want the most out of our experience .

and ofcourse its not needed for survival but my argument is very valid . my argument was never YOU NEED IT TO SURVIVE

it was culture should be available to everybody and if it doesnt hurt any1 its not condoned from my side , your just rambling on about things which has no relevance to what im saying , your first post was put down and now comes the other one claiming i steal from them , i buy all games based on what i see about them and im more often then not being ripped off by half completed games (WAR,AoC,WOTLK), then not .

i love Demigod and will continue to do so if they can fix the skirmish/pantheon issues and fix the favor points/exp/statistics on player profiles in a reasonable time.

My friends go to the library and borrow books , and no there is no netflix or similar function that works in sweden.

It is sad that there is a prevailing attitude of "I want it so I should have it" these days. i've read this debate so far and would like to add my two cents worth.

First, "It doesn't hurt anyone" is a naive statement. Of course someone is getting "hurt" even if it is just economically.  The problem is economic "hurt" usually ends up hurting the "little guy" the most.  I don't know what country Khemintiri lives in, but maybe if people didn't steal music, CD's wouldn't cost $28.

As for the economic crises, again I don't know what country you are in, but I can tell you that the problem in North America (or more specifically the USA), was caused by people buying things they couldn't afford, spending money they don't have and lack of laws/regulations that enabled them to get into a bad financial situation in the first place. In Canada, if you can't afford to buy a house, there are no banks that would allow you to borrow money you couldn't pay back.  Because of that, Canadians are not in as bad a position as Americans in terms of debt.

As far as being in a position of having little money, whether it is due to illness, lack of employment or whatever, it doesn't make you any more "entitled" to things. I know people who complain about being "broke" all the time, yet they still seem to have money for cigarettes, alcohol, internet access, eating out, etc. It's almost always a case of priorities. People seem to think that having their basic needs met is their right, and they resent having to pay for it themselves.  So any money they have they want to spend on frivolous things like music, games, etc. and they feel entitled to these things.  

This sense of entitlement is what I have a problem with. As far as I'm concerned, if you can afford it, or don't want to wait until you save up so you CAN afford it, then you are not entitled to it. As far as being deserving of "culture", again, I don't know where you live, but here in Canada, you can go to the public library and read books for free, borrow movies for free and use the internet for free. You don't NEED to play games or listen to the latest music to have "culture".  Listen to the radio, go for walks, kick a ball around for entertainment.  Nobody owes you a social life or a "pop culture" existence.

  --  the Monk's Wife

Am I the only one who thinks this thread has gotten more than a little ridiculous?

Hell, I don't even care about the discussion any more. This thread is completely hilarious in how far off track it is. It's nearly as entertaining as Demigod itself. Seriously, this thread should be some kind of psychiatric case study about how people interact online compared to in real life.

I do hope you buy the game, in order to support its development.

I then hope that you download a bad torrent that contains a trojan which wipes your computer clean.

Cheers!

its not as easy when you havent been in the same situation , my friends certainly dont have a "pop culture" existance , but the important part of your answer is once again this 

"First, "It doesn't hurt anyone" is a naive statement. Of course someone is getting "hurt" even if it is just economically.  The problem is economic "hurt" usually ends up hurting the "little guy" the most.  I don't know what country Khemintiri lives in, but maybe if people didn't steal music, CD's wouldn't cost $28."

cause when people wouldnt have bought the item anyways they are not losing any money, so in that case it isnt hurting any1 i cant understand how people cant understand this .

if a sale would never have been made , it doesnt cost them anything to have it downloaded ? and in some cases they buy it because they really like it . Then the company would actually gain money ,they just dont want to buy it without knowing what it is .

and its not stolen its a copy infringement violation to be precise and nitpicky its the big movie companies that have decided to call it theft not the law. 

i myself is a lover of all kinds of music/movies/games yes im a big nerd , and as i said in earlier posts i dont think its "OK" but i dont condone people who does it . also seems like a hard thing for people to understand .

i dont disagree on the lot of things you say , i just want people to understand the issue at hand , some people download stuff actually 70% of the internet users do it , dvd sales has still gone up since this phenomenon and cd sales has gone down.

The only real profiteer of a cd sale is the big company behind it , the artists themselves gain more from gigs/being played on the radio .

And the reason for dropping cd sales i think everyone understands is that people want digital music to have on their computer/mp3 players and as such a new market has been done for this which is gaining more and more ground.

and im adding

with best regards

Martin S

CD's cost 28 dollars because record companys are fucking retarded. Most people don't want a CD in this day and age. I still buy them because I've got this strange necessity to actually have the physical copy of the item. People don't want to pay 15 bucks for a CD with 2 good songs. They want to just hit itunes and DL the 2 good songs for 2 bucks. The record companies cant wrap their heads around it so they take a slamming, and for good reason. You run a horrible business that preys on artists and pirates prey on the company, NOT the artist themselves.

Why do you think certain bands have been touring for 30+ years but hardly ever release a CD? Because they don't make shit off of the CD. They make tens or hundreds of millions a year off of touring and off record spins on the radio.

Another reason CDs cost so damn much is packaging, which the ARTIST pays for. It costs them to package the CD which record companies and box stores make a killing off of. There's an article out there where Trent Reznor (Nine inch nails) went to a box store and his CD cost more than any other CD on the shelf, he asked wtf was up and the guy said "well people will pay for it because its you". They're charging the consumer out the ass and making a huge profit because you're willing to eat it. Again, the company is the problem, there is no sense feeling "bad" about it.

Again, more and more artists are putting their music on the internet for zero dollars and zero cents. Completely free. You can pay for it if you want but they don't charge. It's art, a true artist makes art for the love of it, not for profit. They will give you the music and hope you like it. If you like it you might throw them a few bucks or some see a show and support the art. Not the record company.

Of course I won, since I was taunting the pirates. Note that the pirates did not return until they thought I had left. They did not even pick apart the typos I left for them to find. I was not taunting you, because I have no arguement with you whatsoever. I just wanted to see if someone would start a "I borrowed the game from my brother/sister/dogwasher" thread.

First let me say I was on the fence about purchasing Demigods until I heard about the rampant piracy. I then went and bought a copy to help support Stardock because I love PC gaming and I don't want to see it die off because the industry is not being supported. I have been very pleased by what I've seen in the game and can't wait until they get it patched up it will be a blast.

That being said I wanted to point out a couple of things that might have something to do with the very different opinions and vitriol expressed about this topic.

I believe alot of it boils down to economic models. In a capitalist society everything has a price, especially in the United States where money is valued above all else. In addition to that the standard of living here is exponentially higher than in alot of other countries around the world. What that means is we produce alot of "culture" because it has value attached to it and we have alot of consumers with the disposable income to purchase it thus a profit is made. Yes you have some individuals who DO have the income to purchase the "culture" but choose to pirate it instead but just from my time on Game Ranger it appears that the vast majority of the piracy is located in Europe/Asia which in alot of cases have a different economic model.

In many of these countries the level of disposable income is much much lower than in the United States. The prevailing attitude is that if they can't afford to buy something then they shouldn't have access to it but lets look at it a bit closer.

What we are really talking about when we talk about intellectual property is typically "quality of life". Do i need a video game to survive, a book, a movie? No of course not. Does it make my life better by having access to it? Of course it does.

So I have a question about the "quality of life". Do certain people deserve it more based on where they are born? Should I have access to books, movies, video games etc. simply because I was born in the United States while some guy in Somalia has to spend every waking moment working just to survive? Should he be expected to leave his home country and come here to work to buy those things? Should he be expected to lead a revolution to make his country better so he can watch a movie?

I don't believe it is right to steal things or take others hard work without compensation. I also don't think it's right to sit on my throne of moral superiority and judge people I don't know or can't understand because I haven't walked in their shoes.

sorry for rambling, slow night at work........

My friends go to the library and borrow books , and no there is no netflix or similar function that works in sweden.

Of course there's no Netflix in Sweden - because judging from your attitude and what I hear about Swedish socialism, your country obviously does not value free enterprise. I've met the Stardock developers at last year's Penny Arcade Expo in Seattle. They're a great group of guys and I do take it a bit personally when people steal from them. This attitude that the lazy and unemployed can steal from those who do work and try to put forth new innovations is one of the reasons America is sinking fast.

DO NOT BUY THIS GAME. Wait till you hear no more complaits about connectivity issues. Otherwise you'll be throwing money with this junk.

Yes, turning this into a political discussion is clearly the way to go. Think this is the sign that this thread has come to an end.

just popping this in again as you once again noticed stealing from stardock which noone in this entire thread has made any claim about, even the op bought the game.

and i noticed people who cant work due to sickness which isnt the same as lazy.

i think he is trying to make the point that people should  torrent it they should buy it

but  the game is good  there is alot of fun things to do with dg  there is 8 demigods each different

1 is oak the knight  who leads the forces

2 regulus the  angel who lost his weak and fights to protected people with his crossbow

3 sedna the  notherner who rides a giant siberian tiger

4 rook the walking fortresswho protects all

5 torch bearer the man of two sides fire and ice

6 unclean beast the beast that was born  mutalated and hideous from the evil book

7 queen of thorns the farrie that  controls plants and bugs to do her biding

8 lord erebus the lord of vampires who killed his one love and fights for the tastest of food